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Welcome to our Question & Answer Bulletin Board -- a bulletin board for collectors and anyone else to post questions about railroadiana and related history. Please note that we do not deal with contemporary railroading. This board is moderated (all volunteer) but is not staffed by "experts". Rather it relies on everyone to share what they know. Any question or reply about railroadiana is welcome except the following:

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Latest 50 Questions:

 Q3957 C&A RR Register  We recently came across this item while cleaning out a family home. It is a ledger of some sort dated from September 25, 1911 - December 31,1911. It is bound in a canvas(?) binding and measures approximately 12 in. x 15 in. The information is written in pencil and records the date, train, signals, arrival, departure, engineman, conductor, freight cars, and passenger cars for each train that came thru. We've tried to research the history of what this is online, but since we really don't even know what to call it, we don't really know where to begin. Can you give us some information on what this is, and any suggestions on where to begin our research?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, September 19, 2022 by Steve A   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I cannot read the print, but it appears to be a tower or dispatchers record of train movements. There are certain collectors that look for these items. Posted Tuesday, September 20, 2022 by h v coll

A. Yes, a train register. The fact that numbers of cars, both passenger and freight, are being recorded suggests this was a record for a place such as the tower for a crossing or diamond or where somethiing like joint track was in use, and charges were apportioned between two or more railroads according to which RR used the tracks more. And all the timing information played into debates about who did or did not get delayed or given priority.  Posted Saturday, September 24, 2022 by RJMc

A. Try this Historical Society (Link 1) - best of luck !  Link 1  Posted Saturday, September 24, 2022 by JMS

A. From what info. is readily available, the mechanical interlocking at Girard was installed in 1900. Maps of 1892 show one line crossing this Chicago-St. Louis main of the Alton, but elsewhere is noted three total railroads having Girard as a primary station.  Posted Saturday, September 24, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. At this time, Illinois Traction System ran through Girard. ITS was meant to be an interurban running hourly trains, but freight became an ever growing factor on their lines. Looking at another interlocking plant on ICRR and another steam road, ITS crossed both lines on a curvature just beyond the main crossing. If this situation also existed in Girard, then there may have been some extra concern with movements and train orders for this tower? Unfortunately, there's very little online info. about operations in this town. Why would the engineman and conductor have to sign (for TO's?)this book when they could be getting orders on the fly? Was it necessary to verify they had recieved clearance from the tower? And one of those listed trains was arriving and departing in only 60 seconds...not much time to get down and do paperwork. So what was so important about Jerkwater Illinois? Posted Sunday, September 25, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Finally located an RPPC image (Link 1) of a Girard station claimed to be Illinois showing the T.O. semaphore there but no crossing can be seen in this tight view. It was a one level affair with no visible way to be watching another line, but that doesn't preclude a crossing just out of this scene. Link 1  Posted Sunday, September 25, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. @ShastaRoute, I looked at the entries too and it does look like some very short times between arrival and departure. Just a question, I don't know, but I wonder if these were trains that simply passed through and did not stop? Especially if this was a small enough station there may have been no reason to stop, but the time of a train passing through should have been recorded. Just a guess. RE: pictures - I found a 1950s photo claiming to be Girard IL (Link 1) and another page with two pictures (Link 2) but only a partial view of the station. I hope this is helpful.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by JMS

A. I am trying to find it but I saw in one of the references I found that apparently Girard was on the C&A's main line. The station pictures I found are quite different than the RPPC - wonder if this one was a replacement.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by JMS

A. Not to be a troublemaker, but because the photos I found were a brick structure instead of wood (the only explanation being the newer station is a replacement?), I had to wonder if the seller of the Girard real photo postcard mixed up the state. There are towns named Girard also in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I found a book about Girard, PA that shows a picture of the rail station (Link 1). It looks suspiciously like the other end of the station in the RPPC. I couldn't find a picture of the Ohio Girard station. We collect some postcards and I have to say sellers mixing up states does happen. ShastaRoute, good catch with no crossing showing in the postcard image!  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by JMS

A. Brick structure is the Illinois Traction/Illinois Terminal station. The 'lectrik line meanders off, possibly toward a crossing, and a two-story white structure can be spotted peeking along behind the left side of the station...but I found no mention at all of any tower at a junction of lines. Being as the C&A was running fast trains over the route, I'd expect they would be looking early for a way to eliminate crossings that would bring a crew to a halt in order to actually have to sign for orders. This was a mining town, so there might be some facilities for car storage or switching work if that had any effect on passing traffic. Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. History pdf (Link 1) of Girard IL up to 1955. Second RR built from Virden in 1880...maps (1881 township) show this westside paralleling line crossing above Girard northside. In 1884, old C&A station burns..reportedly had a siding when built. So, new station must date around that time. (It's a soggy town so that RPPC of station built on mound might be correct.) Coal mines were added traffic but they played out circa 1922..might be why we find no new facilities after the traction station. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. The second road, Jacksonville & SouthEastern (aka Jacksonville SE Line) ends up in CB&Q in 1904 by aquisition of J. N.W. & S.E.. Variances in maps of alignment & crossing, but here (Link 1) leads to listing of interlock plants and control by road, etc.. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Tracing that second line, we find it was ultimately held in the Jacksonville & St. Louis Railway Company put under control of CB&Q about 1905 (Link 1) but possibly not absorbed until that company was dissolved. The J.S.E. system had been broken up with this part renamed Jacksonville, Louisville & St. Louis Railway. [We have some evidence here of three total railroad stations around Girard, but it might be possible that there also was a tower installation controlling a crossing of two mains and maybe the traction line in the 1910 era.] At Richard Leonard's G&MO Gallery at railarchive.net, go to "Freight Train at Iles Tower, Springfield" for a shot of G&MO F-3 800B leading a drag past an old two-story white tower circa 1970. If one of these was in fact at Girard, then this book could have been employed at the tower rather than the station?? At any rate, it might be historically important for the lost road that brought us Pullmans and more, and a real snapshot in that time. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Perhaps some answer here (Link 1)...page 574 approved application for changes to Girard interlocking to allow C&A to add second main track in 1911. Traffic must be booming at flatlands junction. (I don't know why that plant was listed by Chicagorailfan as Burlington. It seem to be Alton run.) Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3956 Lantern Maintenance and Restoration  I would greatly appreciate any information you have about this lantern and would love to get it up and running! It takes a normal lantern battery and I’ve found new bulbs for it. I was able to turn it on one time after replacing the battery but that has been it. I've gently cleaned a few areas with no luck getting it to turn on again. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, September 13, 2022 by Shanda   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Q721 & Q971 (search box at bottom) have some general insight on the electric lanterns. WD-40 is waxy and leaves coating..not good for electro junctions or locks in low temperatures. PBlaster (an auto section product) is much better where juice is a concern..even inside a distributor cap. Busts rust but permits contacts to work. But it can't produce miracles where the parts deterioration problem is too severe. I'm sure you'll get more answers as folks drop by. Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Kinda dumb suggestion but I wonder, did the first turn-on blow the bulb? Or maybe the bulb was defective. Try a different bulb?  Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2022 by JMS

A. Does the inside of the battery compartment show evidence of heavy corrosion, as discussed in Q721 and 971? If so, it is quite possible that the internal switch levers might be corroded away and broke after just the one use. But JMS is quite right. There are many, many different bulbs with the screw base that will fit into the lantern. But they have different voltage ratings, some as low as 1.5 volts or 3 volts. The very strong 6 volts available from the square-type battery will blow one of those lower-rated bulbs almost instantly, although they might glow very brightly for a brief time. The only way to tell is to read the specs on each bulb type very carefully. Another note: the blue lens on your lantern means it was used to mark places or tracks where work was being conducted, rather than to provide working light. It was and is strictly forbidden to move a train, cars, or engines marked with such a blue light, for the safety of the people working on the equipment. To make them more obvious, some of the lanterns like yours had flashers built in, or used bulbs that had an internal flasher right inside the bulb. So if the lantern comes on, but the bulb flashes, that might be entirely proper.  Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2022 by RJMc

A. I have a feeling that battery did blow the bulbs. I did not have the globe off so I’m not sure if one or both were working. The only bulbs I’ve found so far in this size are led. There isn’t any corrosion in the battery compartment. It’s a little tacky but clean. I’ll try the first suggestion with the cleaner to see if I can get the residue off. I would have to start removing rivets to see under the copper plate but it doesn’t look like it would be corroded. The base came off easily and everything is intact. Very simple structure with the lights moving across rails. Im still on the search for the bulbs to give it one more try. Thank you for all the help, information and suggestions!  Posted Thursday, September 15, 2022 by Shanda

A. Is there any kind of a brand name here. The round globe bulbs in a metal can Conger reads 502 and that might be the originals (from an AT&SF stamped one)...blue node at base of filaments. These are screw base types. (A plastic Starlight 292 uses a pointy globe with flange neck PR13 with clear node and these are not screw base versions.) The best way to deal with an electrical or electro-mechanical component is to bench test with an equal power source...if it works, then the problem lies in the delivery system between it and the power source (the battery here). There is no point in repeatedly putting new components into a system that is bad only to find out you've wasted something that was not needed to begin with. Posted Thursday, September 15, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. I would wonder if the new LED type bulbs will work with the kind of lantern battery that may not be intended for LED bulbs? Just a guess but RJMc said it well: "There are many, many different bulbs with the screw base that will fit into the lantern. But they have different voltage ratings, some as low as 1.5 volts or 3 volts. The very strong 6 volts available from the square-type battery will blow one of those lower-rated bulbs almost instantly." Is there an electrician you can ask about this, without having to pay a substantial fee?  Posted Friday, September 16, 2022 by JMS

A. We tried a voltage meter and it’s definitely getting power to the right places. No name in the original bulbs and they both have yellow below the filament. I definitely think your right and the problem is with the bulbs.  Posted Saturday, September 17, 2022 by shanda

 Q3955 Cleaning the Haze off of a Globe  How should a lantern globe with a dried on haze be properly cleaned to remove the haze from the surface? I am not finding this specific information on this website nor on the Internet. (I am sorry if I missed it on this website). Thanks.  Posted Thursday, September 8, 2022 by TB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Great point, so I checked Kirkman's site and under Lantern Care & Terminology section scrolled down to image of printed #40 Traffic Gard Instructions which reads "Wash Globe"...not much help. Putting Vinegar into the word search yields a lot on metal cleaning, but nyet for glass. But it is vinegar for ashtrays, glass shower doors, and window work..so that may be it for globes and chimneys...nothing with volatile residual vapors that may go boom. Anyone ever use CLR on glass? Lighter fluid might be useful, but you'd want to wash it off afterwards. Ammonia, like Windex, may remove light smudge. Not sure about that whole Coca Cola soaking thing. Newspaper polishing is often touted for a finishing shine by collector glass hounds..guess it has something to do with lead and crystal and all that. Of course, this is all said for clear glass only...might need more info. for color and/or marked globes. Haven't even mentioned brake fluid or acetone, but one should never mix their drinks. Posted Thursday, September 8, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. BTW..The naysayers claimed hard water deposits on glass are doom, but I've used softscrub (like Comet with bleach) on ancient Anchor-Hocking and others with results of "sometimes she will and sometimes she won't, sometimes she does and sometimes she don't". It can get slippery with the glass, so make sure to rest it on thick toweling et al...damp cloth gives some resistance to that tendency to slide off. Never put pressure toward the glass, but only back and forth or it might bust. Small circular motions to get the stubborn spots....finger action, sponges, or fine dish pads, but no heavy scrubbers that might scratch. Posted Thursday, September 8, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Found a number of discussions on the net. This one site (Link 1) for a lantern collection mentions oven cleaner, but not specifically related to your 'haze" problem. Note that the problem of exploding glass is often raised as an aside to cleaning. No one seems to be completely certain of the cause but be alert to temperature differentials between glass, ambient air, and any surface the globe is resting on. (If you've never seen a glass object shatter like this, it's a rather amazing event.) Link 1  Posted Thursday, September 8, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. The "bottle people" refer to this condition as "sick glass," and it is usually the kiss of death because it can't be removed. We have tried every method in the book with no success, but that said, you should at least try. I attached two links, one from a high end auction house and the other from the National Cambridgeglass collectors. A couple of possibles not mentioned above include denture cleaner and there is a recipe for using vinegar.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Saturday, September 10, 2022 by JMS

A. All of the answers so far seem to assume that the haze is something that has been added to the surface of the glass. The Link is to the Wikipedia article on "Glass Disease." It explains in great detail that glass is a very complicated material chemically, and it is not permanent or inert. Glass Disease is how the glass itself deteriorates and loses transparency. This is unfortunately similar to what happens to Lexan plastic (such as was used on the first generation of Amtrak cars when 'bulletproof' windows were required, and also is used on a lot of automobile headlight covers); sunlight penetrates the plastic and turns it translucent, sometimes all the way thru the pane of glazing material. There is no way to correct the Lexan problem other than to prevent it by coating the material before it is installed. As described in the Link for Stage 2, the haze you see on glass may actually be a network of very fine cracks down into the surface, as if the material had been wirebrushed. If this is the case, it is irreversible. Wetting the item may fill the cracks with water and cause clarity to return, but the haze will reappear as soon as the item dries out. If this is the case, there is nothing which any solvent could remove.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, September 10, 2022 by RJMc

A. Thank you all for the information. It appears I may need to add some clarity. I sometimes see railroad globes with a haze on them. It is definitely something on the surface, such as maybe dried kerosene or some other chemical that globes come in contact with. Much of the time, it appears that it could be scratched off but that would likely damage the surface of the globe. My guess is to soak the globe in something that would slowly dissolve the dried "haze" on the glass.  Posted Sunday, September 11, 2022 by DM

A. The above is why you never put fine glassware in a dishwasher! The chemical "detergent" eventually destroys the surface.  Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2022 by JMS

A. If the haze is on the inside of a lantern globe which has been used in service, the haze probably consists of a layer of baked-on soot mixed with leftover waxy material from the partial burning and evaporation of the kerosene (or other fuel, if a much older lantern.) Soot is a form of carbon, as are graphite and diamonds. Pure carbon is notoriously difficult to dissolve but there are some very strong organic solvents which will do it. The solvents tend to be highly volatile, flammable, and poisonous, so I hesitate to recommend them here. If someone has a globe they are willing to test, we should arrange an offline discussion as to what you can try.  Posted Sunday, September 18, 2022 by RJMc

A. All that said, there are commercially available "soot remover" compounds which can probably be found either as spray cans or liquidds. These are likely to be found in the sections of the big box stores where supplies for wood burning stoves are found. One note on the web desciibes using one of them very successfully to clean the heavily-sooted glass window of their wood stove, service fairly similar to the inside of a kerosene lantern globe. Be sure to read and follow any directions when using these chemicals. Posted Monday, September 19, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3954 Key ID Wanted  I recently picked up this key at a Midwest flea market. I'm wondering if anyone can identify it? There are so many CV keys on this site's database that it might be impossible to positively ID it. Also I've never seen or heard of C F HESSER as a maker, and I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about them? Thanks in advance for anyone's help.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, September 3, 2022 by Jim   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Noting the "Cin. O", a Mr. C.F. Hesser of Cincinnati, OH and environs shows him in several different patent documents in the 1880-1890 time period. He is not listed as the inventor but as a witness and/or having the rights to the issued patents assigned to him. One of the patents was for a lever-operated arrangement to indicate whether or not a railroad car toilet closet was occupied, based on the weight of the occupant. He was also active in various technically-oriented organizations such as the Electric Light Association, and he may have been affiliated with the Cincinnati Electric Light Co. He seems to have been one of the first residents of the newly-formed Cincinnati suburb of Norwood. However so far I have seen no reference to the kind of company that would manufacture or supply locks and keys, although there is a reference to a C.F. Hesser Electric Light Co. in Cincinnati at 4th and Plum Sts. in the 1890's. Posted Sunday, September 4, 2022 by RJMc

A. The style of blank to make this key was commonly sold in locksmith shops over many decades -- even into the 1970's and in a few places still today -- and then stamped in almost any way a buyer wanted. So "Hesser" had no need to actually manufacture the keys. One of the more prominent "CVRY"'s was the Cumberland Valley which ran between Harrisburg, PA thru Hagerstown, MD and on into West Virginia. From very early on (1850's)it was a subsidiary of the Pennsylvania RR, but ran under its own name and reporting marks. I note that the bit pattern of your key -- with the right angle bend in the bit -- is essentially the same as the pattern of the key which became the PRR system standard and then the Penn Central and Conrail system standards. But the Cumberland Valley ran nowhere near Ohio and I can find no relationship between "Hesser" and the Cumberland Valley. There was also the Cuyahoga Valley Ry in the 1890's, in northern Ohio, but again not near Cincinnati and no apparent connection with "Hesser". That early CV in Ohio became part of B&O. Mr. C.F. Hesser in the early 1900's became a VP of the Cinci Electric Light Co., the kind of utility that often owned electric railways in addition to selling electric power to the public. But the Trolley and Interurban Directory shows no likely CVRy's for that kind of operation anywhere near Cincinnati.  Posted Monday, September 5, 2022 by RJMc

A. I know nothing about Mr Hesser - but (with repect) was not the Cumberland Valley a RailROAD not a RailWAY? (I get this all the time from lantern dealers at the Gaithersburg show in Maryland discussing how to tell a Cumberland Valley from a Central Vermont ...) See Link 1 and Link 2 . The Vermont operation is easier: CVRR until 1899 when it reorganized as CVRY. All that said, we've found that keys seemed to be marked RR or RY "regardless," depending on what the person ordering them specified or what the factory stamped on them. I may be wrong, but it seems the terms road and way apparently were a little more interchangeably used back in the day.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Saturday, September 10, 2022 by JMS

A. There likely are other CV lines, maybe even small ones... I looked on Google Books (which is distinct from "just" Google) and found references to another Ohio CV, the Connotton Valley Railway (CVRY)that was more in the Cleveland area (Link 1)... Another thought might be an electric railway; streetcars or trolleys.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, September 10, 2022 by JMS

A. From what I could find, there were at least 17 CVRR and 11 CVRY`s in existence. One could only guess as to which one this is from. Posted Sunday, September 11, 2022 by h v coll

 Q3953 A&W #250 Lantern  We recently acquired an amber globed Adams and Westlake # 250 kero lantern. The globe has the letters PN etched on one side, a small horseshoe with the letters NX Appears on the opposite side. I am thinking this one was from the mid 20’s. I have not been able to determine which railroad PN would represent. Can you help? Thank You.  Posted Sunday, August 28, 2022 by Sharen   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. "PN" was the official reporting mark for the Piedmont and Northern, a line with a very long and fascinating history of having been both an electric interurban passenger railroad and a heavy-duty freight carrier in the Carolinas. See the Link for the history. (Disclaimer: there is no guarantee that the letters might have stood for something else. Reporting marks were assigned and exclusive, but in general anyone could mark anything -- other than RR cars and locomotives -- with any combination they chose.)  Link 1  Posted Monday, August 29, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3952 PRR Recording  Can you give me information regarding this PRR record album with pamphlet? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, August 28, 2022 by Jim G.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3951 Lantern Maker?  In the attached photo is a W&OD Ry lantern. It's missing its top cap and has an unmarked globe. Can anyone identify the maker? A&W?, Armspear? I'm posting for a friend. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, August 28, 2022 by BK   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Congratulations on having a lantern from the Washington and Old Dominion; as a shortline their lanterns are not common. A run thru Barrett's Encyclopedia of RR Lighting shows that almost all of the major manufacturers made lanterns similar to this in terms of the flat steel guards rather than wires. But a really close match seems to be the "Double Guard Armspear" shown in a full-page pic on pg. 75. Some matching details: the flat tab closing latch for the lid (not formed wire); the 3-row hole pattern in the cap; the fact that the top guard ring is flat steel but the bottom guard is round wire; the arrangement of the bail attached to ears on the brim; the shape of the brim. The lantern in Barrett has a different font arrangement but that was very commonly changed to suit anything anyone ordered. It appears your lantern has been modified into a 'wax melter' if in fact that is a cup inserted into the removed top of the lantern. See prior Q's 1272 and 882 about how lanterns were used to melt beeswax to coat joints in tree branches being grafted, as was commonly done on many fruit trees.  Posted Monday, August 29, 2022 by RJMc

A. Looking back at Q1272, the lantern marked as a "Merribrooke Melter" made by Armspear (see Link, and scroll down to the bottom of the page) has all the characteristics of your lantern, including the font, other than the W&OD marking tending to confirm Armspear as the mfr.  Link 1  Posted Monday, August 29, 2022 by RJMc

A. Various sources list many possible uses for the melted wax from a melter like this: (1) grafting tree branches, (2) coating raw eggs to preserve them for months for later use (see Link), (3) sealing cans and jars of preserved foods, (4) hair removal, and (5) sealing documents. For most of these uses beeswax or paraffin are used. For 5, stick wax was often used and only a small tab had to be melted for each document, so the quantities from a modified lantern would not likely be needed. There are probably many other possible uses. Many of these household applications can be easily done with a hot water in a double boiler; only the plant grafting seems to need a portable melter such as the modified lantern.  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, August 30, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3950 D.L.&W, NYS&W, NYO&W Lantern Markings  Questions regarding these 3 railroad lanterns: I see older, taller style D.L.&W. R.R lanterns with embossed lids and globes that match. For the Vesta and other short style lanterns, I see just the Kopp or Corning globes with no RR embossing on the globes. Is it correct to not have globe embossing/etching on the Vesta and short style globes for D.L. & W.? ALSO: For NYS&WRR, NYO&W RR lanterns, I see ones with embossing on the lid BUT never have I seen RR embossing on the globes, no matter what size lantern. Is this correct? Thanks  Posted Friday, August 19, 2022 by DM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. As with any business, sometimes you keep costs to the minimum, other times you spend additional funds to look good and advertise. Railroads were no different. Most marked their property in some way to help prevent theft, but there were lean times when many items were not marked, or purchased in bulk when an unexpected need arose. Any marking costs additional funds. Posted Saturday, August 20, 2022 by h v coll

A. h v coll is right -sometimes no mark is 100% correct. (If you find a NYO&W cast Vesta globe, for example, it is a FAKE. They never ordered them.) I hope checking Link1 - Key Lock & Lantern's "Lantern Surveys" (Scroll down on the page that appears) will be helpful. You can at least find out if any marked globes from a particular line have been documented; realize that if it's not in the list, it doesn't necessarily not exist -- some globes have to have escaped being seen, by these limited numbers of people who reported to KL&L. But at least you can tell what globes HAVE been seen. Another thing to watch for is that since glass breaks, globes got replaced. You may come across a lantern marked for a line with a "related line" globe in it - example, DL&W frame with a Lackawanna globe. Or New York Central with a Boston & Albany globe (the NYC controlled the B&A). Great question!!  Link 1  Posted Saturday, August 20, 2022 by JMS

A. Another thing to bear in mind is that across all North American railroads, when kerosene lanterns were in daily use they were functionally identical. Despite relatively minor differences between manufacturers and model numbers, a Canadian National lantern would work just as well on the National of Mexico, and everywhere in between. With things like employee timetables or switch keys, it was critical to the operation and mandatory for each employee to have exactly the right one. But the markings on lantern brims and globes did not affect the basic function at all, so as already indicated the markings were optional and decided more as a matter of taste, property protection, and the budget status of the purchasing agent when they were acquired. And the result is all kinds of combinations having been used and all "were correct" in that the needed functions were delivered.  Posted Saturday, August 20, 2022 by RJMc

A. Thank you to all that provided information. All information is logical and makes complete sense. I did find the Link1 - Key Lock & Lantern's "Lantern Surveys" to be a very valuable group of information and is worthy of printing out and taking along when the chance of lanterns for sale may arise.  Posted Monday, August 29, 2022 by DM

 Q3949 Reliable Lantern w/ Twist-off Bell?  I just saw a picture of an Adlake Reliable model lantern with a twist-off bell. Is it a real railroad lantern or a reproduction? All other Reliable bellbottoms I've ever seen have been with a fixed bellbottom. Thanks!  Posted Tuesday, August 16, 2022 by Larry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. In the catalogs I have, none of the Reliable lanterns have a removeable bell. There could be one, but from what I could tell, this is probably a lid switch to another frame. Posted Friday, August 19, 2022 by h v coll

A. Yes there were A&W Reliable bell-bottom lanterns made with twist off bells. but from what I have observed very few railroads ordered them .The WABASH Ry is one that comes to mind. Posted Saturday, August 20, 2022 by JH

A. DSS&A RY also Posted Thursday, September 15, 2022 by BobF

 Q3948 Miniature RR Flags  Can you tell me about these miniature flags, one from PRR, the other from Conrail? They are about 10 inches or so. The PRR flag is embroidered. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, August 14, 2022 by Jim G.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Jim G.-Thanks for bringing sample items from an often overlooked array of oddities. Rail artifacts are often divided between things related to the big physical plant if the industry and items used in advertising/public relations. But this is the third part..the corporate history. Just like in the military, for every infantryman carrying a rifle there is an enormous support structure to make the work possible. To function efficienty, there must be gatherings and that's what this is likely related to. In short, conventions/conferences. The big flagmakers were capable of producing all sorts of printed and embroidered material from large banners down to table flags. These were displayed wherever a group met such as for a dinner in a hotel with large banquet rooms. There were shippers conventions, billing meetings, and what not which were held on a regular basis (annual, bi-annual etc.) all through the era before technology/consolidations (& Covid) have made these things somewhat antiquated by modernized standards. In some cases, custom glasswares were made. Commemorative plates with logos on semi-vitreous china might have been made in the long past, but highly unlikely than any special sets of dining services (vitreous china) were created. Not at all unlike some of what can be found in the railroad brotherhoods or old timers association gatherings. But it often included people outside the rail industry itself such as the shippers...I myself have one for American President Lines which was involved in container on railcar advances but had a long association with carriers even before that. So you can find all these things as survivors that someone carried back home or to the office to display there during their tenure. They may have been issued in lots, but hardly at the mass production level, so the survival rate isn't all that high over time. Unless a collector has grabbed them for the trainroom as decoration or held them in storage, they just got tossed out and their numbers grow shorter bit by bit. With a railroad logo, it's a piece of corporate/company history beyond the tracks. And looks good too. Posted Monday, August 15, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3947 PRR Med Cabinet  I bought this Penn RR medical cabinet at a sale. It's from Newark NJ and has boxes of bandages etc. from the Pennsylvania RR. Can this be by a company for the station? Please let me know your thoughts on it. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, August 14, 2022 by Jim G   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Is that two questions...by whom and for where? As to an outside supply company, this looks like it could have been made in-house using stencils to paint the lettering. The contents could have been purchased in large bulk quantities, so why buy kits when you could have existing shop employees make these between other jobs. Where it was employed might require a search of photo evidence and there could be multiple locations needing these in any single city like Newark...a bit tougher to narrow down than a small town with just an agency structure. Posted Monday, August 15, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. An interesting bit (Link 1) on the history of First Aid Kits with a railroad emphasis. Included is a photo of a J&J "cabinet" version with a wire handle on the left. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, August 16, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. I like Shasta Route's suggestion that RR employees may have made cabinets. Especially because stencils were used (easy for unskilled painters - a commercial company likely would have meant professional lettering), and individual city names would be another expense. If they bought anything from an outside company I think it would have been UNDECORATED cabinets to add the markings to. Or indeed, as Shasta Route says, they could have made them in-house, it was a monster railroad and a woodworking shop would be no surprise. I certainly would call it a PRR relic, used in Newark, in either an office building or station. Most of the inner contents packages are fairly common, but I've never seen such a terrific cabinet like this !! Great find !  Posted Saturday, August 20, 2022 by JMS

A. I found some information regarding my first-aid cabinet, there was a similar first-aid cabinet on pinrest, with a different first-aid logo on the front, it was from the 1920s thanks for your input on my items. Link 1  Posted Sunday, August 28, 2022 by Jim G.

A. Hello and here is another PRR first aid cabinet exactly the same as yours including the metal mounting tabs which are not shown in the photo. Because of the slight crudeness of the overall materials, including the stencil, I would bet the ranch that these where PRR shop made. This one came from the Buffalo, New York area.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, September 7, 2022 by VEN

 Q3946 PRR Conductor's Box?  Can you tell me something regarding this PRR box with key? What's the number mean? And is this a rare item? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, August 14, 2022 by Jim G   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See prior Q's 3380 and 3000, which was about a very similar PRR lock box. The contents of yours seem to be very complete, with ticket stubs, etc which indicate it was a "Conductor's Cash Box". And it was probably assigned by the number to an individual conductor. Does any of the paperwork in your box give an emplyee's name? Although one of the prior answers talks about a dining car steward (also needing a cash box) a dining car steward would not need fusees. And while the dining car crews often went the whole length of a run (say LA to Chicago on the Santa Fe, or NYC to Chicago on the PRR) and could base their operations in the dining car itself, during those same trips the conductors and trainmen came and went multiple times at division points and had to take all of their business affairs with them. On an all-coach train particularly, the conductor had to "set up shop" by taking over a coach seat and working out of his cash box.  Posted Monday, August 15, 2022 by RJMc

A. Indeed seems to be the very same box 660 in the images for Q3000. The contents were shifted about? The paint colors should give general dating as they match up to PRR passenger car and engine scheme. Posted Monday, August 15, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3945 Possible RR Key Identification  I would like to know if anyone recognizes the cut of this brass barrel key and if it could possibly be railroad related? Thank you in advance to all those that respond in helping answer this mystery.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, August 6, 2022 by DBN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. As shown, this is a key made by Fraim. Appears to be unmarked, or the marking was thin and worn off. Railroads used these keys, but so did firms like utilities, factories, and many others. There were hundreds of railroads when this style of key was made, and many of them used multiple cuts for their various departments Posted Monday, August 8, 2022 by h v coll

A. See prior Q 3842, which seems to be discussing this exact same key. The advice there remains applicable.  Posted Tuesday, August 9, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3944 Strange Lantern Bail  I found this at a local antique shop and haven't been able to find anything about it. Have you ever seen a bail on a lantern like this?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, August 6, 2022 by David L   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The lantern is marked ccc&stl and a prr globe which I don't believe is original to the lantern. Posted Saturday, August 6, 2022 by David L.

A. See prior Q 3935 and the Link (also in that prior Q) about lanterns with insulated and/or cushioned bails. CCC & StL ("Big Four") was a New York Central subsidiary which like many big rr subsidiaries kept something of a separate identity for many years. Are there patent dates on the lantern? The Big Four was involved in the construction and operation of the electrified Cleveland Union Terminal projedt but it was under construction (including the catenary) thru the 1920's and did not begin full electric operations until 1929.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, August 7, 2022 by RJMc

A. I had a P&LE lantern with a wooden bail like this. I believe that sometimes such bails were a matter of preference rather than safety. The P&LE never had electrified trackage. I also have a B&O lantern with a metal bail like this, obviously not a safety issue re: electrification. So here it was likely what the employee preferred -- maybe easier on the hands. Posted Monday, August 8, 2022 by PK

A. Right....I can see that if you spent 12 or 14 (or even 16) hours out in a yard, swinging the lantern almost continuously to deliver movement signals to an engineer, the wire bails would really be chewing into your hands even with thick gloves.  Posted Monday, August 8, 2022 by RJMc

A. Another thought is areas with long winters, and cold weather. A larger bail that you could grip and would not freeze to your gloves could come in handy. Posted Monday, August 8, 2022 by h v coll

A. It's metal and when you flip up the top and you push in each side of the bail it comes right off. Posted Wednesday, August 24, 2022 by David L.

 Q3943 Builders Plate Location  Where would the builders plate, id plate and or manufacturing plates be located on 1940’s (about that year) Baldwin or Alcoa Diesel/Electric engine? Thank you,  Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by SM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Although it may just be a typo in your question, the diesels were made by ALCO / GE, which stood for American Locomotive Co. / General Electric. Web searches will work a lot better under ALCO than Alcoa (which makes aluminum.) The link turned up on a prior Q about trust plates and shows a builder's plate on the cab side of a LIRR ALCo with a trust plate below it on the frame. Looking at a lot of Baldwin diesel old pix on the web (somewhat surprisingly) doesn't show any obvious builder's plates. I would have expected them to be on the sides of the frames, usually below the walkway so that someone walking on the ground could easily read them. On some equipment, such as coaches, the builder's plate was inside the vestibule, and that might have occurred also with diesel locomotives.  Link 1  Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by RJMc

A. The Link below shows a 1949 Baldwin builder's plate mounted on the frame next to the steps as described above. Link 1  Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3942 CPR Print  I have a print from the Canadian Pacific railway. The frame says Canadian Pacific on the bottom and the print is of the Banff Hotel and Spa. My guess is it's from the 30's. Any help to better understand what I have is appreciated! Hard to get a decent pic but perhaps someone will be able to better identify it.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by DB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Originally railroad companies in the US had many subsidiaries such as hotel companies, etc etc. But Federal anti-trust regulation in the U.S. very early on required them to divest those activities so that the huge RR company treasuries, based on semi-monopoly transportation revenue, could not be used to unfairly compete in other industries. This type of regulation never occurred in Canada so the big railways, CP and CN, diversified widely and owned hotel companies, ferry boat lines, airlines, and many other subsidiaries. The first Link is a discussion of the long and varied history of the CPR Hotels subsidiary. The second link is a whole collection of Banff Hotel images sorted by decade which you can compare with your image to zero in on a date.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by RJMc

A. Whoa! At what point were U.S. railroads forced out of hotels by regulators? Not in anything I've ever encountered. There was an investigation of the relationship of UP to the Pacific Hotels Company concerning the supplies they carried for them, but that's not what ended the company...it was pure economic factors and change. SP ran an entire group of hotels for many years. As to the art job, a name is sometimes found on frames for those who have a relationship to the subject...it could be a brass plate or cut into the frame. Not only booking agencies, ticket offices, and travel agents..but also credit unions and maybe a lot more with the name specified. This does appear to be official advertising display material, but it's also possible that the railroad may have "gifted" the picture to some special traveler or by way of the freight agency to a shipper. There's a whole lot of stuff floating about that has not been pinned down for the who and why. Even The Lionel Corporation made up special engine or car models given away to people who remain unknown or incompletely identified. I'd look into the company that framed it to see what their business relationship was to CP. Sun Valley had similar framed items done IIRC in Omaha...I had one...though there may not be anything on the frame as good as this. Posted Sunday, July 24, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. ShastaRoute is quite correct that US railroads continued to own subsidiaries such as hotels. See Link for several, still in use today but under other ownership. The Banff Hotel is covered. But there IS a distinct difference in how such subsidiaries were treated in the US vs. Canada; I think related to antitrust considerations in the US and involved with the sometimes Byzantine regulations of the Interstate Commerce Commission and subsequently by the Surface Transportation Board. I have been trying, so far unsuccessfully, to get a more explicit description of what those legal/regulatory isses were/are. I suspect that US railroad companies kept "arms length" from their subsidiaries because they did not want the ICC/STB to intensively regulate the non-railroad operations.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, September 1, 2022 by RJM

 Q3941 Brass Plated Lantern  I found this Adlake Reliable tall lantern in Duluth MN. I find it interesting that it is brass plated. Could it have been a presentation lantern? The brass plating seems old and original to the lamp. Could it have had a marine use? Any thoughts? Thanks   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, July 22, 2022 by Dave   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3940 Baggage Tag Info?  Found on our property Where the Western Railroad train station was, and then replaced by Boston & Albany railroad station in Huntington Massachusetts. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, July 2, 2022 by Paul   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The Western RR became part of the Boston & Albany in 1867, so this bag check dates before that. Posted Sunday, July 3, 2022 by DA

A. I would get in touch with the gentleman who owns tagtown.net (Link 1) as he is an authority on baggage tags, New England tags in particular. A manufacturer stamp, if there is one, would be on the narrow piece above the slot. Best of luck and congratulations on an absolutely super find !!!  Link 1  Posted Saturday, July 9, 2022 by JMS

 Q3939 Help Identifying Railroad Piece  I found this piece at my local flea market but I cannot figure out what it is from the research I’ve done. Can anyone identify what this is? Thank You.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, June 30, 2022 by ML   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It is a sawed-off chunk of regular railroad rail. Rail usually came (and still comes) in 39-foot lengths. Rail is often sawed to shorter lengths to fit needed spots in the track, so rail saws are quite common on RR's. People often saw off small lengths and use them as bookends. They are often polished, some may get chrome plated, or specially marked (such as yours) or mounted with wood blocks and given as awards. The size of your rail is fairly small; it is possibly from a subway or industrial railroad, but there is no way to really tell the source of the rail. Doing a quick web search shows just one person named "Reynold Deffer". That Reynold was born in 1884, married, shows up in a couple of census records, and died in 1936. It looks like he might have gotten drafted in 1917. It is quite possible he was a railroad or subway employee or official.  Posted Friday, July 1, 2022 by RJMc

A. Reynold's entire life was in and around the New York City area. Posted Friday, July 1, 2022 by RJMc

A. Pieces of rail like this we're often used as anvils. Posted Saturday, July 2, 2022 by Ex Sou Ry

A. Taking another look at the pic, (and thank you for the included scale) this rail section is only three inches high(!!) as well as three inches long. This is clearly too small for any regular RR use and more likely for an amusement park ride-on railroad or some industrial use. The sawed-off slice looks more suitable for a paperweight than a bookend. But the small size made it much easier to use hand stamp letters to inscribe Reynold's name and date and have all the letters so nicely aligned.  Posted Sunday, July 10, 2022 by RJMc

A. If this is 3" high, it would be around 30# rail, maybe from a mine, industrial plant, overhead crane, amusement park or numerous others. Posted Sunday, August 21, 2022 by h v coll

 Q3938 WPA Drill or Stake circa 1935-43  Bar stock 1 1/8 in. W x 16 in. L to tip. Works Progress Administration at more than 3 million strong undertook many types of projects including rail laying. Some required blasting of rock or other quarry work. This is much heavier than the normal one man tool, but it might be used in dual jacking? WPA had tool shops to fashion what they needed, much like railroads did. Could this have been worked into a tool to act like a star drill? If not, what was it more likely to have been used for? John Henry awaits the answer. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, June 30, 2022 by ShastaRoute   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. WPA was involved in many very heavy construction projects. This could have been used as a 'drift pin' to force the initial alignment of the pre-drilled hole patterns in girders (such as in bridge or multi-story building construction, or possibly even boiler sections), prior to riveting. The mushrooming shows that this one got hammered very heavily however it was used.  Posted Thursday, June 30, 2022 by RJMc

A. Very interesting point, pun intended. Too bad there's no singular museum dedicated to the works of this program. However, NPR has a good image of Roosevelt visiting Grand Coulee Dam project (Link 1) in 1937. Might be part of one of his Presidential rail trips across the country (with day trips out by the limo) to inspect the work and attend the openings/dedications. Some shots of rail projects do turn up in searches. Link 1  Posted Friday, July 1, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3937 I&LI Ry Lantern Marking  What railroad does the marking 'I&LI Ry' on an Adlake Reliable lantern stand for?  Posted Tuesday, June 28, 2022 by MB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. On a quick search of Bill Edson's Railroad Names, nothing shows up for I & L I. The closest I see is an Indianopolis and Louisville T raction Co. from 1907 to 1923, if the third letter was a T rather than an I.  Posted Wednesday, June 29, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3936 RR Lantern Info?  I picked up a train lantern yesterday at an old barn auction in Minnesota for $5. I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about this lantern? I find it unusual that it has a brass top. I would like to know who made it and roughly how old it is. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by Dave   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Cannot tell you a maker from this photo, as it would only be a guess, but for $5, that was your day to play the lottery! Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by h v coll

A. Thanks for the information. I have done some research on it. I think it may be a C J Ham brakeman's lantern. I get manufacturing dates from 1870's-1889. I bought it at Hamel MN. I am wondering if the location was a part of early Chicago and Northwestern history and if they had a branch line in Hamel MN. I am going to leave it as it is. I did clean it and put some oil on it to preserve the metal. I am hesitant to polish the brass on top of it. I think the patina is good . (maybe look for a fount.) Any thoughts ? Thanks Dave  Posted Monday, June 27, 2022 by Dave

A. Your lantern was made by the Steam Gauge & Lantern Co. in Rochester, NY, around 1885. It’s a classic no. 39 single guard model, and SG&L lanterns are scarce, marked for the C&NW. Posted Tuesday, June 28, 2022 by ASwoyer

A. OMG Dave - did you ever hit a mother lode here! A brass top bell bottom is "high end." Multiply $5 x ??? It surely looks like you did a terrific job cleaning it, and I wouldn't polish the brass, either; it looks great just as it is. You don't want the top looking like a replacement. There are founts/burners selling from time to time on eBay (but you may have a problem finding the correct ones) - or - my best advice would be that hopefully you're close enough to go to one of the big railroad shows in the Chicago area, where you would find big time lantern people. (DO NOT be in a hurry to sell this! until you have figured out a real value, which is considerable.) The shows are over for June but there will be more coming (Link 1) You just need to get into the "loop" for the higher end lantern guys, and this should help.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 30, 2022 by JMS

 Q3935 Lantern Marking?  I found this railroad lantern at an antique store at Northfield MN. It was very rusty when I found it. It has 'M.St.P.R&D.E.T.Co' on it. Does anyone know what railroad it came from? What reason would the bail have a leather covering on it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by Dave   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Minneapolis St.Paul Rochester & Dubuque Electric Traction Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by h v coll

A. The insulated bails were commonly offered by all the lantern mfrs and were most often sold to main line electrified railways (such as PRR, Milwaukee Road, New Haven, NY Central), trolley lines, interurbans and subways to limit the risk of the employee accidentally contacting high voltage components and getting electrocuted. It also had the advantage of making a firmer grip. Often the insulation was made of wrapped electrical wire; look closely and you may see that it is cloth and rubber-insulated wire rather than leather. Some employees wrapped their own. Bakelite and other insulating materials were offered for the insulation by some manufacturers. The link is to the 1918 catalog entry in the Archives here on the RRiana site for an Adlake lantern with a wooden bail, for the same reasons.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3934 Train Order Signal  I am trying to determine the manufacturer of a train order signal I recently bought. Looking for info on locating manufacturer marks on the signal and old catalogs. I'm missing a few parts and am hoping to find info to help determine and locate authentic components.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by Dick   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Is there any markings of GRS or US&S on anything ? I have the catalogs on both. Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by h v coll

A. h v coll I can't find any marks; someone thought the signal looked like a GRS. What's the availability of the catalogs? Thanks Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by dick

A. Look hard at the metal castings. They often had mold numbers which may also have counted as part numbers for replacement part purposes and may help to ID the maker. The lens parts were standardized and interchangeable among manufacturers and so may not only be easier to find, but can be realistically used regardless of mfr. since the RR's did that kind of mixing and matching a lot, anyway. The link is to a 1918 GRS manual in the Archives on this RRiana site on (mostly electric) semaphores with a lot of detailed drawings. There are a lot of references in the catalog to "RSA Standards" which refers to the Railway Signal Association. There are many references on the web to RSA publications which may have good technical info. RSA ultimately became the Signal Section of the Association of American RR's (AAR) which continued to maintain those standards.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 26, 2022 by RJMc

A. Thanks RJMc, I've found several numbers on the various parts but no actual brand mark. I'll do more research.  Posted Monday, June 27, 2022 by dick

 Q3933 Thoughts on this Lantern?  I picked up a train lantern (lamp?) yesterday at an old farm auction in Wisconsin. I have attached several pictures of the lantern. I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about it? I cannot find any identifying marks. I have not been able to find anything similar with the fixed side-handle in the 4-sided shape. The lantern is just shy of 12 inches. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 19, 2022 by Bob   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The lamp is one of the many thousands of styles of "carriage lamp" which you can see by a web search such as at the Link. Some of them look very similar to yours. The relatively lightweight construction indicates that very few of these (if any) were used on railroads, but were used on horse-drawn vehicles and early automobiles and trucks before electric lights became common. On many of the web images, you can see the socket on the side for mounting the lamp. I think what now looks like a handle on your lamp is the broken off piece of the bracket from whatever vehicle the lamp was mounted on. The set screw was added to keep the lamp on the bracket in service.  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, June 21, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3932 Class Lamp Bracket  A 3-color class lamp I purchased from an online auction has a different type of mounting bracket. Instead of the common horizontal ring casting at the base of the lamp, there is a vertical bracket mounted to the side of the lamp. Does the vertical bracket identify which railroad used this lamp? While cleaning soot from inside the body I discovered there is a plate with patent dates, including Great Britain patents, mounted on the inside of the lamp body between the lenses. Was this lamp from Great Britain? Never saw a patent plate like this on the inside of any A&W caboose markers or class lamps before. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 12, 2022 by JC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Don't forget that Canada was still part of Great Britain (as well as the now Republic of Ireland) and the British patent system was probably in use well beyond the England/Scotland/Wales core of the empire. Posted Monday, June 13, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. As you stated, this is a class lamp used on the locomotives, not on a caboose. This mounting bracket is just one style of many that could be ordered, depending on which style was needed. Unless it is railroad marked, it would be near impossible to call it one from another. Still a nice find. Posted Monday, June 13, 2022 by h v coll

A. The 1907 Adams and Westlake catalog copy available in the Archives here on the RRiana Site (See Link 1) shows this as a No. 187 or No. 187 1/2 "Adlake Automatic Engine Classification Lamp" with a choice of the "F" or "R" type bracket. The illustration shows your type of bracket. The NO. 187 had green, white, and red colors and so could also be used as the rear marker on the loco tender or on any train. The 1/2 option had only green and white for class light service. The "automatic" part refers to the arrangement for changing the displayed color by throwing levers from outside the lamp housing (sort of like Volkswagen "automatic manual shift transmissons"). The catalog claims this lamp style was standard on many RR's. I am certain I have seen vintage photos of this type of bracket on the rear markers on a passenger train, I think on the B&O. They might have substituted a yellow lense option since some areas required multi-color markers for running in multiple track territory. Since the basic housings on class lights and markers, and the mounting brackets, were all standard that would not have been surprising -- just a matter of taste and the rules for each RR.  Link 1  Posted Monday, June 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. Also here in the Archives (See Link) an Adlake No. 219 Tail Lamp is shown with a Type F Bracket, as on your lamp. This was in the 1912-1916 time period. The Type F bracket seems to support the lamp much closer to the lamp's center of gravity; this would result in less vibration and less wear on the carbody-side brackets. It is kind of surprising to me that the highly-cantilevered (and long since standardized) Type R brackets did not break off with all the vibration and pounding of daily RR service.  Link 1  Posted Monday, June 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. Here is a 3rd type of A&W class lamp bracket, deep slots that appear to be designed to fit over a plate. Lamp is unmarked, but I was told this was a proprietary UP design, so probably not offered in the A&W catalog. VERY heavy. The slots are 3 inches deep, the bracket metal is 1/2 inch thick, and there are 2 unthreaded holes in one of the arms. Joe Cich Link 1  Posted Saturday, June 25, 2022 by JC

 Q3931 UP Circus China Pattern  I am having difficulty finding information/illustrations regarding the Syracuse line of children's 'Circus' china used by the UPRR in the early '50's. Specifically the 8 inch plate decorated with the figure of a ringmaster with top hat, tails and a whip. I've been able to find photos depicting clowns, dogs, monkeys, a ballerina on horseback etc. but no ringmaster. I would like to confirm that they did, in fact, produce this design. Any information will be appreciated. Best Regards,  Posted Sunday, June 5, 2022 by Alan M   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See Show Photos section for 2006 at Timonium Maryland..there's a shot of the group with Ringmaster plate second from left on page 2. Posted Monday, June 6, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. A.M. ...that design got my interest because of what runs across the plate behind him. There is an actual 1929 photo (Link 1: scroll down) of RBBB circus and the center ring has this design matching those plates. Besides the typical pieces, I see a bowl with full clown, a bowl with monkey and three balloons, and a tall cup with a horsehead..but I can't confirm if they were officially part of the railroad service. Link 1  Posted Monday, June 6, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. I would scan the page but I think a "link" has to be for the internet (?) In "Official Guide" (McIntyre) on page 147 there is the discussion/photos of CIRCUS SERIES - which includes a picture of the Ringmaster plate, a cup/mug with a railroad car animal cage with a lion inside, and the common clown face plate. McIntyre says: "Syracuse refers to this as a 'hand-painted series' and according to their records it was never purchased from them by the UP. Syracuse did sell the pattern to the Dohrmann Company, a distributor of institutional wares on the West coast. It is evident that this is where the UP purchased the pattern. Its use on the UP is well documented through anecdotal records including mention of it by Paul R. McDonald in his book '41 Years in the DC&H.'" If I can find something I can send via LINK I will do it.  Posted Tuesday, June 7, 2022 by JMS

A. I did a quick online search and here's the photo from Timonium - LINK 1 . It would be incredible to find out how many different "scenes" were actually made.  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, June 7, 2022 by JMS

 Q3930 RR Lock  We know these were used on railroads but seem to be getting conflicting information about where they were used. Any help would be appreciated including a photo of an open lock. (The key shown will not open this lock.) Thanks,  [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2022 by Skip B   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3929 Key Marking?  I have an antique Adlake key stamped 'S. & S. F. P .CO', but I can not find it in your name list. Do you know which RR it stands for?  Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2022 by SN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Perhaps not a railroad? Did the key have a known far western connection? There once was a Sierra & San Francisco Power Company which was merged into PG&E in the late '20's (Link 1). Power facilities often had a rail connection, sometimes closed off with gates until access was needed for cars. Just one possibility. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, June 1, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. The power company ID is a good suggestion. As with many other power companies, in 1916 the S&SF power company was a major supplier of electricity to the trolley lines in the SF area (See Link 1). Nationwide, many electric power supply companies began as subsidiaries of street car and interurban rail companies. When highway transport took over, the profitable power company subsidiaries survived while the rail companies disappeared. Based on the original common ownership, and continuing common protection needs for many outdoor facilities (such as substations), US power companies used tens of thousands of locks and keys bought to railroad designs and made by the same manufacturers. Its often impossible to tell whether a given lock may have seen railroad, trolley, power company, or maybe all kinds of service Link 1  Posted Monday, June 6, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3928 SAL RR Soup Tureen  I have a question that may need investigating. In 1912 did the Seaboard Airline Railroad have soup tureens that had script writing on their sides? If so, can anyone provide a photo of same?  Posted Monday, May 23, 2022 by Dave   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. There is a photo in both railroad silver books: (1) "Silver in the Diner" (John Fowler) (Link 1) states "The Atlantic Coast Line Railroad put its first dining cars into service in 1913. As one of the two primary carriers from the North to Florida, its long-distance passenger service thrived until the advent of air travel." Fowler shows a manufacturer's photo of pieces included in the service, INCLUDING a soup tureen (side marked) that was made in two sizes: 1 pint and 1-1/2 pint. In the corner of that photo is an 1847 Rogers Brothers logo - Fowler goes on to say that International Silver provided the ACL's initial silverware using the Meriden-1847 Rogers Bros until 1914. (Dave - WHICH mark "your" piece carries will date it as before 1914 or after 1914) (2) The other book, "Silver Banquet II" (Everett Maffett) shows the same manufacturer photo but without the area in which the Rogers Bros logo appears. Maffett also identifies the same soup tureen in the same two sizes, but with no discussion of any kind. Dave - As far as WHICH soup tureen you are trying to find out about, the size probably will be marked on the bottom: 1 pt or 1-1/2 pt along with the maker mark. If the Rogers Bros logo appears, per Fowler, the piece was made 1914 or before; after 1914 apparently the "standard" International Silver mark(s) were used.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, May 26, 2022 by JMS

A. Dave, if you are considering the tureen listed on eBay right now I hope I'm wrong, but I'd be very concerned about the marking. Since the piece is bottom marked INTERNATIONAL SILVER (unfortunately with no date box they usually included) per both books, it is post-1914. I'd be very concerned that the script on the side truly appears to be amateurish ... BOTH Fowler and Maffett show ONLY the ACL circle logo, and more importantly, the International Silver Company photo of all 12 pieces shows ONLY the circle logo. Fowler actually additionally shows the round circle logo that was used. No mention by EITHER author is made of any script marking - so you are very wise to question it. My other consideration is wondering -- compared with the allover wear on the entire piece, why is the script not more worn? Is the piece a plain, "generic" tureen that somebody unethical has added a railroad marking to, to substantially increase its value? In many cases honest sellers are fooled by shysters and not being RR-oriented, they don't realize. I can't tell if this is one of those cases. One "good" thing here is that with eBay taking over sales, ALL buyers must accept returns - eBay guarantees money back, and you can return any purchase for a refund. Just be careful!  Link 1  Posted Thursday, May 26, 2022 by JMS

A. Hi, Thank-you for the reply. First of all, NO, I am not considering it because I used the very same word(amateurish)when I originally noticed this item for sale. I contacted the seller twice to inform him that the piece looked suspicious. The first response was polite but the second response was more defiant saying that it was an original piece and that he received calls from so called "experts"stating that it was fine. He subsequently asked me not to contact him any more. I've been at this game a long, long time and for the most part I can see things for what they truly are. It's a shame that some people will not admit to being wrong or at the very least unsure of something. That is why everyone must be very careful when purchasing railroad items either on E-Bay or in a brick and mortar store. Posted Saturday, May 28, 2022 by DY

A. It's June 4 and this tureen is still up for sale ... looks like nobody is beating a path after a "rare" piece. Good advice about eBay, Dave! because so many suspicious items have been offered, what I and I am sure many others have noticed is a "fear factor" developing... too many dishonest people victimizing honest ones (BOTH sellers and buyers) as well as honest people not knowing what they are selling (which actually is the genuine thrill of eBay). Every good collector has been swindled at least once, part of the learning experience and after a while we can begin recognizing red flags.  Posted Saturday, June 4, 2022 by JMS

A. Hello, It is Sunday, June 5th, and I just read your new reply. Yes, it still is for sale and for good reason !!!!! I agree with you, wholeheartedly, that the buying experience on E-Bay has changed for the worst. There is much more noticeable dishonestly than in years past. You can see from a quick glance that many items have been faked and the starting prices on other items are so astronomical that I wonder how the seller can actually expect anyone to bid on it. Gone, forever, are the days when someone was happy with a small profit. This year(2022)is my 45th year of collecting railroad items. It's been a long journey and I'm still learning as I go. I believe what also helped me is the fact that I had a 45-1/2 year career on the railroad and working with a lot of old timers from the steam days really opened my eyes with regard to all of the different items that the railroads used. I will probably keep collecting railroad antiques right up until the day I die. The thrill of the hunt always looking for that one elusive item to add to my ever expanding collection !!!!! Take care. Posted Sunday, June 5, 2022 by DY

A. Dave, if you happen to be reading this still, Link 1 is a beautiful side-marked Seaboard supreme set. How totally unlike the scratching on the side of the tureen .......... Link 1  Posted Sunday, June 5, 2022 by JMS

A. Hello, Yes, I saw this item a little while back. Extremely easy to verify it's originality. Posted Monday, June 6, 2022 by DY

 Q3927 C&A Badge  I have found information on 3 'C&A' railroads but cannot identify the source of this badge. Any information will be appreciated. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, May 17, 2022 by Larry R   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3926 IC Tag  I can't find any information on this tag. It's 2 in. by 3 in. and was folded-up when found while metal detecting. I was wondering if you could tell me anything about it? Found 50 miles south of Memphis. Thanks!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, May 5, 2022 by Brian   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Straight out of Baker's Railroadiana 4th edition (1990): Baggage Checks page 18-->>"ICRR - Return this check to Ill. CENT. RR CHICAGO, circle/diamond shape logo below, 2 x 2 7/8", strap, W.W. Wilcox Co., Chicago.......${valuation deleted}" Posted Thursday, May 5, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. His book was titled RailRoad Collectibles by then. Posted Thursday, May 5, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Thank-you for your reply. Would you have any idea of possible age or date range?  Posted Friday, May 6, 2022 by Brian

A. Quck fishin' in the Muddy Mississip places logo date range after 1896 and before 1936. Postally confirmed date of 1908. Pass date of 1916. Several ads in 1905/6/7 era. So, likely approximation 1900-20 commonly known as "heavyweight era". Posted Friday, May 6, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Thank you again, appreciate your info!  Posted Friday, May 6, 2022 by Brian

A. A connect (Link 1) to Agricultural Advertising vol. 13 with a section of rail logos explaining origins, meanings, adoption dates, applied useage, etc. for several of the roads operating at that time. ICRR included. Link 1  Posted Friday, August 19, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3925 Fount Burner Variation  This fount with this burner came out of a late model Adlake switch lamp from the Union Pacific. I am not sure of the purpose of the two small metal plates on each side of the flame spreader. I have a large collection of lamps and have never seen this appendage. Have I missed something?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, May 5, 2022 by TE   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. As a guess, those look a lot like the wire loops that were used on lard oil burners to move heat from the flame to keep the oil warm enough to flow up the wick. May be an adaptation for extreme cold weather service -- UP certainly has some places where that could be an issue.  Posted Friday, May 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. There are excellent sections of Adlake catalogs in the Archives section of this RRiana site. Several of them have very detailed illustrated parts breakdowns -- since most RR's rebuilt valuable things like switchlights many times and needed replacement parts. Link 1 is to an Adlake discussion all about the wide variety of available burners, globes and wicks for switchlights in about 1940. Nothing in there clearly shows your mod, but the No. 90 burner comes close, possibly if your burner had a piece missing. Link 2 is the catalog pages with parts breakdown for the entire Model 1370 switch lamp -- again, not showing your specific mod but with a lot of very detailed info about the standard lamps, for future reference. Nothing required any given RR to stick to the AAR standards; this may well be something only the UP (or a predecessor RR) required and ordered as a special.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Friday, May 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. Correction: Its a Model 1307 above. Another possibility: since things were so interchangeable, it may not be an Adlake burner. But so far looking at the other mfr's catalogs in the Archives here doesn't show anything like your mod, either.  Posted Friday, May 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. The notation on the top of the fount saying "Use Kerosene Oil Only", the co. name shown as Adams and Westlake (not Adlake) and the general look cause me to think that although the lamp may have been 'late model' this fount is much older.  Posted Friday, May 13, 2022 by RJMc

A. Good points all. Thanks for the input. I agree the fount is an older model. The lifting handle is just a half circle, bent hook. I hadn't thought of the plates being a warmth retention item for extremely cold winter conditions through the Rockies. Close examination seems to indicate that they were well manufactured, meaning, it doesn't look like someone just quickly soldered them into place as an afterthought of, "lets try this." My gut feeling is that the burner is an older version of a same modern one. I say that because while the design can be matched to a modern one in the catalogs, this one is overall, lighter in weight with slightly thinner metal pieces than all the other burners I have, and that's a lot. No markings on it at all. Regardless, it's always a treat to open up a switch lamp and see what is going on inside with interchangeable, replaceable parts.  Posted Sunday, May 15, 2022 by TE

 Q3924 Seat Check/Ticket Stub-Astoria & Columbia River RR 1908  From what I can gather, Northern Pacific came into control of Hammond's A&CR in 1907 and later folded it into SP&S. At the time of this stub, the rail-ferry at Goble would have been ending, changing the nature of the Astoria road though it would still have a connection to Portland via an existing line to Goble. Rainier Oregon was about six miles west. I don't find much paper relating to this road, but does anyone know more about stubs for the line?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, April 29, 2022 by Shasta Route   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. While researching further, I found that A&CR timetables show trains that depart from a depot in Portland bound for Astoria & way points beginning with Goble....but, Houlton on that NP section was used as flag stop for those using the Astoria road points. [Houlton was the rail connection for nearby St. Helens on the Columbia. An online seller was posting a real photo snap of the Houlton Station with a stopped train, but I could not identify which road it was owned by...looks like a small loco. While there could be an image of this station in some book, it is the only one I could find in any online source. There is another photo that looks up the road to that crossing site, but the station is missing at that point..perhaps moved.] So, there might be Houlton stubs issued by A&CR in addition to their own stations. Posted Friday, April 29, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. -->From the steam roster of the SP&S, I was able to find A&CR engines by road number became SP&S engines in 1911, though not all prior numbers were accounted for. Whether they were retired or missing was not clear. -->From a 1913 report showing a closed complaint about inadequate depot facilities at Houghton, I was able to find this rail line was now listed as the Astoria division of the SP&S (Link 1). -->From government survey marker placement project reports (leveling), they continue to refer to the Goble-Portland section as "part of line" in reference to the A&CR. Some sources seem to believe this line was originally built as OR&N (becoming ORR&N after the default) to Goble wherein it is claimed Villard ran out of funds and had to stop. There is a short period where NP & OR&N are held in joint control which might explain why some have called this an NP line. At this point, it's difficult to believe any claims about who built or owned that section, or how it was aquired. Link 1  Posted Saturday, April 30, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. In 1958, George Abdill* emphatically stated that the first section of line out of Portland was carried out as the Astoria & Coast (no reference as whether railroad or railway) but he did not specify who controlled this nor if it was just a construction company name. Elsewhere, it is noted that the first service (circa 1883-4) was a shoreline built operation ending at Hunters where the Kalama ferry boat was met. This terminus was later shifted to Goble. [The local newspaper, The Oregonian, ran an article in 1901 covering the failure of the Astoria & South Coast under Reid to reach the 1890 agreement with Colis Huntington on the then planned coastal connection to Southern Pacific via a branchline. This later became part of the A&CR (SP&S).] If there are surviving ticket stubs, they could involve these other names and locations. The A&C has not surfaced in searches. *See Superior Seattle, This Was Railroading, Abdill. Reprinted Bonanza. Posted Tuesday, May 3, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3923 RR Lighting?  I have been trying to research the following lantern. It is up for sale online and have not seen one like it before. Would you have any knowledge or history on this item? Thank you,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, April 20, 2022 by Rodney   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Research "MINING LAMPs" or a similar topic. I was in a mining museum out west some time back and they had several examples of smaller lighting objects and especially version of the taller one on the left in the picture. Posted Friday, April 22, 2022 by TE

 Q3922 SP Lines 'Setting Sun' Mirror  Measures 73 in. L x 57in. H. Outer staplings on reverse show it was once fully covered. Some tiny losses behind glass suggest older real mirror. Closest I could see on a matching frame was RCA Victor Master's Voice one that also seems to pre-date those 1970's-80's era knockoffs. This is an older find from around the time when the Eugene Shops complex was being retired by Union Pacific, so that could be in consideration for where it may have resided. Any thoughts on authenticity are welcome.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, April 13, 2022 by Shasta Route   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Finally found one shown on Worthpoint at 18" x 24" with frame painted all white and groups of five rays between each break of one ray. No gold edge lines on frame in that case. Some depots did have large SP decals applied to window glass...in the cases of combined depots with Pacific Electric it would have decals for both companies. [That's not to say that this item is authentic issuance, but rather that there is some factual history of a like useage of applications done on glass.] Posted Friday, August 19, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3921 REA 1930s Shipping Frame?  I hope you might be able to give me some information. Attached are photos of a Railway Express item which some workers recently found in my attic. My house was built in the mid 1930s. Perhaps you can help identify what this curious item is? At first we thought it was some kind of low table or a small cushion support because of the chicken wire and that it has swing open 'legs.' But that certainly doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe those legs hold an item in and that's how the item can be removed. But what could possibly fit behind them pressed into the chicken wire? This is about 5 feet tall and 2 1/2 feet wide. It's well reinforced at the corners with metal braces. Judging from the name of the addressee, it was the first owner of our house on Long Island, so it must be in the mid to later 1930's. Please let me know either way if you can help identify this. I am no longer on Facebook, so I can't get in touch with the Railway Express Agency Fangroup that was passed on to me by Freightwaves as a possible way to get this identified. Thank you so much for your time.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, March 28, 2022 by Nancy   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. What an intriguing item! Obviously it folds up for easy handling/shipping, and the wire would seem to have been used to keep the weight as minimal as possible. But I do not think this is an item that the Railway Express Agency actually owned. The REA label on it seems to be a shipping label, sending the item via REA (by train), rather than a label identifying it as REA property. The Post Office label seems to confirm that it was shipped another time via the postal service. Is there an antique shop locally that might be able to offer suggestions?  Posted Tuesday, March 29, 2022 by JMS

A. I agree with JMS; it was shipped via REA and USPS, but not owned by them. It is constructed in a way to minimize shipping charges when it is all folded up. I note that the size is almost perfect for a bed, but the construction is not substantial enough to actually be a regular bed frame. Was the first owner of your house a funeral director? I can see this item possibly supporting a casket during a funeral. Another item usually in this same size is the folding tables used in schools, churches, and at conventions and shows. This could have served in that capacity at remote events such as revival meetings, long before the friendly area rental store became a common phenomenon.  Posted Tuesday, March 29, 2022 by RJMc

A. This looks like a base frame for what was called a "day bed" years ago. There would have been a thin mattress on the top. Think of it as a camp bed, that could be easily folded up and stored during the day. My family had one of these in a side room that my grandmother would rest on when she needed a break, without going upstairs to the bedroom. Probably modeled off of Civil War beds used by the officers that also folded up in the middle. Posted Friday, April 1, 2022 by h v coll

 Q3920 Old RR Electric Lantern Requirement  Since railroad lanterns were used to pass train signals, there used to be a requirement posted in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) that the lanterns have two bulbs and be capable of storing a spare bulb. The redundant bulbs were to avoid accidents from lack of train signals from a lantern bulb failure. Can anyone tell me what that former CFR number was? Thanks. Posted Monday, March 28, 2022 by Russ   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I do not recall ever seeing a hand lantern provision in 49 CFR, where railroad safety regulations are located. This doesn't surprise me because the hand lanterns have been standardized for so long by the railroads and lantern manufacturers -- long before FRA existed and long before any coverage of RR issues in CFR. The rules that existed then were Interstate Commerce Commission rules. Link 1 is to a Star Headlight and Lantern Co. website and their catalog for 1952, which says Star had focussed on electric lanterns since 1930 "exceeding AAR standards." And there are other references to electric lanterns as far back as the 19-teens (Link 2). The two bulbs available in most of these lanterns serve different functions: one provides a focussed spotlight, the other a wide-angle light for signaling. I suspect any requirement for lantern standards may have been similar to the requirements for watches, where the employee had to HAVE a watch which HE had to provide and maintain, and that watch had to meet the RR's standards. That was a rulebook requirement, not a Federal rule. Many RR employees provided their own kerosene lanterns and one RR cited in Link 2 required each employee to buy at least one lantern from the RR on employment. The AAR standards would have provided a benchmark for what lanterns were acceptable to meet any such rulebook requirement.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Tuesday, March 29, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3919 Dietz FITZALL Raised Numbers  A LOC-NOB red globe with 1/8 in. thickness. Appears to be similar to #852, but measures closer to W.T. Kirkman No. 0 Tubular Globe with minor difference of lower outside diameter being 3 3/8 in. (3 6/16 in.) rather than their specified 3 7/16 inches. Upper outside diameter is 2 3/4 in., and overall height of 6 5/8 in. The main question is what could 'C+2' reference since that does not appear to be a factory location code? (This is red glass through and through.) TIA!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, March 23, 2022 by ShastaRoute   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I was able to find a similar globe in a listing of what is obviously a Dietz "Monarch" hot blast. Photos were tough but it appears to read "C+3" and all else is equal. Posted Friday, March 25, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Dietz (as well as other lantern and lamp mfrs) globes were made by different glass outfits. These almost always bear maker and mold numbrs in code. C2 for example would be Corning glass and mold #2 for that globe. For mass produced globes like the Fitzall there were dozens of molds in use at any time. I've had numbers up into the 60's.  Posted Friday, March 25, 2022 by James

A. Full list of those glass makers codes is found under Question 10 of F.A.Q's. at W.T. Kirkman's site lanternnetdotcom (Link 1). [And Thanks, James.] Link 1  Posted Saturday, March 26, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3918 Builders Plate Info?  I'm from the Netherlands. I've got a Brooks Works plate as shown in the photo. My father found the plate in the 1980s. He was trading in old metals and found the plate in a container. Could you tell me please more about the type of the locomotive?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, March 13, 2022 by CP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. You have a very nice plate it is from a 2-8-2 built for the Ferrocarrilles de Cuba number 354 also worked for MINAZ Lopez Pena plant number 1910 as well as the MINAZ Espana Republicana plant number 51 MINAZ is the Spanish initials for the Ministry of Sugar Posted Monday, March 14, 2022 by RMH

 Q3917 Oil Can Marking?  I have been working on selling off some of my railroadiana items, and one of the oil cans that I have is a tallow pot with the markings Pa.L.W. After some extensive searching online, I have not been able to come up with the railroad name that it was associated with. I had assumed that it was Pennsylvania, Lehigh, & Western, but I have not found any railroad with that moniker. Can you help me find the correct name for these initials? Kind Regards,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, March 13, 2022 by Scott   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Pa.L.W. is for Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburg or P.S. Pennsylvania system. Posted Sunday, March 13, 2022 by DC

 Q3916 Globe for Adlake 100 Lantern?  What size globe is needed for an Adlake 100 Lantern? Thank you in advance.  Posted Thursday, March 3, 2022 by JN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Adlake 100s take a 4" globe that looks like a #39 with an 1 3/8" cut off the top. This leaves a globe that looks like it is upside down to the point that most are marked "TOP" so you put them in correctly. The other option is change out the globe retainer for a standard Reliable retainer and then you can use a #39 globe Posted Friday, March 4, 2022 by COD

A. The Adlake #100 takes a globe that is 3 5/16 in. bottom diameter X 3 1/2 in. top diameter X 4 in. in height. See Link.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, March 6, 2022 by RJE

 Q3915 Handlan Lantern for US Army?  I found this globe today and am trying to figure out what it might go to. It’s 4-1/2 inches tall so I thought Handlan lantern, and it's etched 'U.S.A' so I thought possibly US Army, but I haven’t been able to find any historical reference for Handlan lanterns in use with the US Army, just Dietz and Adlake. It's Macbeth glass (High Speed MEG Co Made in USA), but I don't know how long Corning carried the Macbeth branding after the 1936 purchase and I'm not clear on the Handlan #345/358 production dates so having a hard time placing the globe on a timeline. Hoping this group can shed some light, thank you!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, February 23, 2022 by Jake   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This will fit the Dietz Vesta lanterns or a special order/special size Adlake Reliable that was made for the Army but not marked except for the maker.  Posted Saturday, February 26, 2022 by COD

A. I had a terrific Dietz Vesta Navy dark lantern and was so pleased when I found one of these USA globes for it ... the lantern was all brass. President Wilson nationalized the railroad system during the World War I emergency - this lasted from 1917 until 1920. See Link 1 for interesting history.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, February 27, 2022 by JMS

A. Wow. So can this be summed up defining the entire period that these military versions were in use? And, if WWI, then did the army ones also find use in Europe where US personnel operated trains beyond those of French railroads? Posted Monday, February 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. The US military for decades used many tens of thousands (millions?) of kerosene lanterns on all kinds of operations, not just railroading. Every tent in an encampment needed one or two. Just put ' U.S. Army ' in the Search by word or phrase box (without quotation marks) to see a lot of prior discussion.  Posted Wednesday, March 2, 2022 by RJMc

A. Ok, so I led the group astray…the globe was labeled 4-1/2 in. when I bought it - didn't think much to question it… then I read through Q2690 after RJMc’s response and that thread questioned whether or not a 4-1/2 in. globe would fit the Vesta and short Reliables so I put a tape on it… it's a 4-1/4 in. globe, doh! This makes much more sense and I think it's certain it would have been used on a Vesta or short Reliable. It still begs the question of time period. The only references I’ve been able to find on USA marked globes for these particular lanterns all cite cast marked globes (even the 4-1/4 in. globe survey here only notes cast USA marks). Yes, quartermaster records show the US supplied upwards of 200,000 kerosene lanterns during WWII; I’m sure they were used for many purposes, but I'm guessing this globe pre-dates WWII. The glass has somewhat yellowed and Macbeth was bought out by Corning in 1936. Would like to find a period correct lantern to put it on; at this point I'm thinking an unmarked short Reliable or pre-1936 unmarked or 'US' marked Vesta would be appropriate. I don’t know if this globe came standard on one lantern or the other vs. the cast globe or perhaps it came on neither and the U.S. Government simply had a contract for spare globes with Macbeth and they were swapped in whenever and wherever needed? I think we've nailed down the lantern(s) this globe belonged to; just hoping to dial in the time period. Thank you all for the valuable feedback! Posted Sunday, March 6, 2022 by Jake

A. Note the profile on this Vesta type globe is of the earliest style with the short top rim flange. They are found both cast and etched U.S.A. and yes thats for US Army. They are WW1 era contracts along with the Adlake Reliable hybrid model. The Army purchased extra fount/burners & globes for obvious reasons. Over their service life some of these old globes wound up in later short model Vestas up to WW2 although most later army Vestas came with the std. Dietz Vesta globe; plain or simply etched 'US.' I used to find cardboard boxes of these (cast & etched) with Army QMC storage stamps.  Posted Sunday, March 13, 2022 by James

A. Just to note, there were also Naval Railway artllery sections operating in France in WWI. Presumably, they would have had a need for equipment of this sort. Posted Friday, April 1, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3914 China Info?  I have a mystery piece of RR China I would like to know more about. I tried many years ago - but no definitive answer on it. Thought I'd try again. Can you tell me any info on this? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, February 23, 2022 by Patricia   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The pattern order for Western Pacific appears to be WP-3 Keddie by Warwick, then WP-4 Meridale (a stock border customized with logo) by Onondago Pottery Company [OPC-Syracuse], and finally WP-2 Feather by Shenango. [ What could be missing is unknown until someone actually finds it and proves it.] Manufacturer date codes are the only thing can provide factual information, but Meridale was probably a mid-1920's pattern and we see some decoration on menus that would suggest such. Yours is Feather, which has recieved additional gold "overglaze" (over the glaze, not overglazed decalcomania which is under the glaze) by Royal China who largely specialized in household type wares (see Jo Cunningham's American Dinnerware on them). Why and when create another problem. So far, Larry Paul has concluded that that other feather design by Scammell at the Maddock Pottery (appx.circa 1926-8) is the pattern used at the Feather River Inn by that time. But we are still missing the earlier pattern when WP built and operated the lodge resort (1916-). And perhaps WP operated other things that needed china. On the other hand, perhaps the railroad just decorated these for another undocumented reason, or an excess at Shenango ended up in the hands of Royal (not very likely for controlled patterns). It all seems improbable but I myself have a piece from Maddock made for a Portland eatery which also has a stamp from one of these third party china makers that never worked in vitreous wares..even the supplier is identified on it. I believe that one also has gold overlay. Subcontracting? Who knows...they're all dead and left us no notes. Certainly yours is an interesting piece to have. Looking into Royal's history might help here. Posted Thursday, February 24, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. One added consideration...if this was excess stock from late production, then the cancellation of passenger services may well have led to these wares going into the hands of third parties who contracted for the gold additions. If the supplier was Dohrmann Hotel Supply out of San Francisco, then they might have had warehouses to dispose of in addition to the railroad or Shenango. IIRC, Royal was still operating in the 1970's and maybe up to the '80's. Gold overlay is finished at lower temperatures than greenwares and glazedwares, so it can be added after the glost firing, but only above the glaze. You might be able to feel this with a finger. Posted Thursday, February 24, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. I am somewhat confused by the number of possibilities mentioned in the first two answers. Am I reading correctly: This is a piece originally made to a much simpler WP Feather pattern -- (was that pattern used on the railroad?) Then sometime after the original manufacture THIS piece was modified (by Royal -- somebody other than the original mfr.) to add the gold trim? Was that process done by hand, one piece at a time, or somehow automated? And highly unlikely (??) that such a piece would have been used out on the railroad, but may have been used for PR giveaways or other auxiliary purposes? Interesting circumstances, in any case.  Posted Friday, February 25, 2022 by RJMc

A. Luckin's sample backstamp for Meridale dates to December 1929. Not sure when Feather was introduced, and patterns can overlap, but 1930's seems a reasonable "earliest date". Royal was created primarily to engage in premiums/advertising/etc. from older potteries. But it became much more. Looking at backstamps, on a historical site with 2 pages for Royal, I saw one that matched this style (for the gold decor) and it was basically datable by a note that put it as a gift in 1940. [When the stamp starts or ends is hard to say.] So it would seem that this piece could have been finished at almost any point during the lifespan of the Feather pattern. It would then seem that a lot of possibilities for this piece's decoration are there. This was an era still of hand done decoration, not full automation. I doubt the piece ever saw use before the gold was applied..it was likely re-routed from new stock. [I know-extra transport costs! The two potteries are in adjoining states-Penn. & Ohio-so who knows? If aquired as a lot at discount price, they might have made their numbers.] And of course, railroads themselves made shiny new things available for direct order by passengers. Maybe it was mentioned on some piece of paper? Posted Friday, February 25, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. And yet more...think of the effect of the WWII materials restrictions orders and the ensuing rush to deplete non-essential production before the deadline fell in 1942. Beyond that...if this is a one-off item, just looking at the oddities of china companies like Homer Laughlin will show you there were many reasons such things exist, some decorated by another firm. Posted Friday, February 25, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. Thank you both for the wealth of information! When I first sought information around 2005 or so, I was told it was a gravy boat,circa 1949,and may have been a sample or presentation piece. I have been trying to locate where the Royal China records might be to see if it was perhaps a special order. They did do decorative gold application for other pottery companies, like Hull. But Royal appears to have been a division of Regal China. I read Shenango had supply issues around this time, so maybe they subbed out? There are voluminous Shenango records @ the Lawrence County Historical Society in New Castle. I contacted them in July 2020 and sent photos, but research volunteers were working from home then due to Covid. I followed up 6 months later and got no reply back. I also found a video online of the abandoned (some 30 years ago) Shenango plant. It was filmed in 2019. The site is in awful shape;there are records all over the floor,employee x-rays, tons of finished and unfinished china, et al. When they zoomed in on orders I looked to see if they might just be for my gravy boat--lol! I guess they didn't save everything ;( Both spooky & sad. Posted Friday, February 25, 2022 by Patricia

A. Addendum: Just discovered that there were actually two Royal China Companies--Chicago,Ill. & Sebring, OH. The one I referenced above(in Chicago)isn't the correct one. I also found the historical site ShastaRoute mentioned with the datable note ;)This makes sense as Sebring and New Castle are only an hour apart. I've gone ahead and inquired about further info from the histrical site. Will let you know if these bird seeds lead anywhere!  Posted Saturday, February 26, 2022 by Patricia

A. One other possibility perhaps - I've seen quite a few Pennsylvania Railroad china reglazed with distinctly non-railroad patterns -- both on the same piece. It's really weird to see a nice PRR keystone design under a bunch of flowers and gold. My thought was perhaps the factory wanted to test something or other and they happened to have some left over/rejected/extra/whatever at the factory, so they grabbed the RR pieces and tried the other pattern on top. Maybe they needed to test kilns, transfers, glazes, who knows and the RR pieces being there, were handy to use. Just a guess.  Posted Sunday, February 27, 2022 by JMS

A. In "The Official Guide to Railroad Dining Car China" Douglas McIntyre calls this pattern "Feather River" and states it was first produced in 1947-49.  Posted Sunday, February 27, 2022 by JMS

A. JMS-very interesting. Did McIntyre explain where he got the dating info. on the pattern, like Shenango records or useage photos? (I unloaded my copy long ago.) Posted Monday, February 28, 2022 by ShastaRoute

A. No explanation from McIntyre about where the dating came from, but I imagine he had to have had information or he wouldn't have printed such specific years. He and Rich Luckin both had close contacts with Syracuse China getting production records, and I would imagine/guess either or both of them were after the same from Shenango. What they did or got I have no clue. Years Syracuse offered an Archives service that even I was contacting, retired employees ran the service on a volunteer basis and could be spoken with on Wednesday afternoons. They would look up and send copies of actual orders to people who inquired. That was years ago and I should have taken much greater advantage, but I did not want to overdo my welcome, so I didn't.  Posted Thursday, March 3, 2022 by JMS

A. Here is another "double dipped" piece of railroad china, this one marked for the Pennsylvania - see Link 1.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, March 5, 2022 by jms

A. SORRY - I messed up and the photo/link I posted about isn't the one with the PRR on the piece, right there with the floral design. I have seen several of those; a PRR keystone mark right on a dish with flowers - can't tell which transfer is on the bottom. This sauce boat is the very first Wabash piece I've ever seen this "double" pattern on.  Posted Saturday, March 5, 2022 by JMS

A. Hey JMS....did you mean to say WABASH? Or, Feather River/Western Pacific...?  Posted Sunday, August 14, 2022 by Patricia

 Q3913 Fake PRR Bell?  I have a box of items from my grandfather, who worked out of Baltimore as a brakeman for the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. One of the items is a mountable brass bell with clapper, and with the keystone PRR logo on the exterior. I'm not sure where he got it or why, and I've read that almost all of these types of bells are reproductions or fakes. Before I try to sell it, I'd like to know if this one is a 'fake' or reproduction? Another way to ask the question is: Are *any* bells like this authentic? Any help would be appreciated!  [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, February 3, 2022 by Lynn   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The Link is to a page here on the RRiana site that discusses what is known about this type of marked "Hand Bell." As far as we know these were never used on a RR, but produced as keepsakes. There is an outside chance the RR itself might have produced them for this purpose, such as for marketing giveaways. Mentioning Baltimore causes me to wonder if bells like this might have been sold at the B&O Museum Gift Shop in Baltimore. Over many years the Museum sold many newly-manufactured keepsake type items (for example lanterns and china pieces) as well as authentic RR surplus items.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, February 5, 2022 by RJMc

 Q3912 3-1/4 Inch Corning Globe with Libbey Logo  I have a Corning Kero globe (3-1/4 inch) with a 'Libbey Glass logo' opposite the Corning logo. This is the first one I have seen. I know that Libbey Glass dates back quite far, but why would their logo be on a Corning globe for a railroad lantern? Any thoughts???  Posted Thursday, February 3, 2022 by Dave   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Can you post a picture please ? The only "Libbey glass" logo I know of is a scrolling letter L . Thanks.  Posted Monday, February 7, 2022 by JMS

A. Hello, I'm sorry but I cannot send a photo. The casting is so light that you would not be able to see it. The Libbey name is enclosed within a circle. The letter L begins at top left then proceeds downward slightly to the left before reaching the bottom. It continues unbroken to the right then loops up to form the letter Y. In between are the letters IBBE. This logo is extremely difficult to see in person let alone a photo. I hope this description helps a little. Posted Thursday, February 10, 2022 by Dave

A. I google searched and found an interesting story - see Link 1.I have no way to know if this is true, but it's what turned up. Link2 is Libbey Glass company information. If you scroll all the way to the very bottom there are illustrations of the circle logos with dates when they were used.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, February 10, 2022 by JMS

A. Hello, Thanks for the links. Great information !!!!! The logo on my lantern dates in the 1919-1945 era. This is why railroad lanterns are so fascinating. You never know what type of information will turn up. Posted Saturday, February 12, 2022 by Dave

 Q3911 Adlake #1112 Switch Lantern Target Finish  I am restoring an Adlake #1112 lantern and while stripping two or three coats of paint off from the targets, I'm ending up with an extremely hard red finish which is not removed with stripper or even a heat gun. Does anyone know what this finish is and what will possibly remove it? Is it ceramic or possibly lead based? Thanks.  Posted Wednesday, February 2, 2022 by Jim C   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. That is a baked-on porcelain finish, designed to withstand almost anything nature could throw at it, including the expansion and contraction of the base metal with extreme rates of temperature change. Only physical impact (bullets, for example) would typically cause it to shatter and flake off. Sometimes with great age it would develop cracks but usually the entire coating would not peel off. Only intensive and very aggressive sandblasting would be likely to remove it. It would be easier to find a different target, if the porcelain color is not to your liking on the one you have.  Posted Wednesday, February 2, 2022 by RJMc

A. There are porcelain repair folks, but I doubt if the repair cost is cheaper than finding another target. As said in the prior response, they were designed to take a beating. I have found some that were bent, maybe from a piece of dragging equipment, with no damage to the face, except for a few minor cracks. If you go looking for a replacement, remember to match it to the lens size, plus the shape of the target, as there are many different ones out there. A&W made plenty of them, but not being in service for years, it could take some time. Posted Wednesday, February 2, 2022 by h v coll

 Q3910 C&O Switch Lamp  I've been collecting mostly china for a while, but I've just recently gotten into lamps & lanterns, so I'm not as knowledgeable about this topic. I recently acquired a switch lamp from the Chesapeake & Ohio, and I have a few questions about it. Currently, it is painted 'Fire Hydrant Red.' Is it safe to assume it was never painted this color by the railroad? If so, would it be beneficial or detrimental to repaint it black (which I'm assuming is the correct color)? It's also painted gold on the inside (again, I'm assuming not correct). I've seen similar lamps finished inside with silver paint, gray paint, mirror polished metal, and unfinished bare metal. How would these lamps have normally been finished inside in actual use? Lastly, the lenses are currently four different colors (red, amber, green, and clear). Would this arrangement have ever been used by the railroad or was this another modification made by a later owner? For clarification, it is definitely on a switch mount base (footed square post hole on the bottom) and not a caboose lamp base (rotating bracket). Thanks for any insight you can share!  Posted Thursday, January 27, 2022 by Nick   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. There is a very good reason for switch lamps to be painted black -- as are almost all signal heads. Any other color similar to the indication colors could cause the lamp body to be mistaken for an indication, bearing in mind that switch lamps had to be seen in widely varying ambient light conditions. This is particularly true if day targets are not used. Some special-application lamp bodies, such as derail position indicators, might have been other colors, but red would not be a likely one. Some RR's painted marker lamp bodies bright yellow, but in that case that fitted the correct function to mark the rear of a train even if the lamp was not lit. We have discussed lens colors on the site here many times in the past, and they varied widely; see prior Q 2971 for starters. To my knowledge the question of painting the inside has not come up here before. Most lamps in service quickly gained a layer of soot, but probably left the factory with metal on the inside with no finish added. The lens openings leave so little area on the inside of the lamp body that reflecting more light doesn't improve the operation enough to justify the added cost.  Posted Thursday, January 27, 2022 by RJMc

A. As previously stated, I have never seen a listing for the inside color of a switch or marker lamp. From memory, black or bare metal silver was it. As to signals, many masts are painted silver at the bottom to show better at night for the brakeman walking a broke down train, but past head height was black so as to not give a false reading from the sun. Depending on the type of signal, and the location. some of these were a bear to paint, without getting anything on the lens. Many times, I used my pole gear, swung around with a can and brush, and did the best I could. You had to watch out behind you at all times for trains, as you could be blocking the signal. Posted Friday, January 28, 2022 by h v coll

A. Very interesting inquiry as I had been looking at an online image of the Burlington Zephyr approaching a station with passengers which had been colorized a few years ago. Not a bad job and don't know if they now have a way to scan grey tones for likely color clues, but they ended up with one switchstand base in a bright apple green like some sort of antique Ford Cabriolet. Sure gonna leave future generations with a Disney view of the reality of the past unless they dug up some corroborating proof of this implied practice. Posted Saturday, January 29, 2022 by ShastaRoute

 Q3909 A&W Question  I'm wondering when Adams & Westlake stopped using their 'A&W CO' stamp and changed to Adlake? Posted Wednesday, January 26, 2022 by DA   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Seems like it depended on the lantern style, but it appears to be in the teens. Question would be how many pieces did they have pre-stamped in stock that they continued to use. Posted Thursday, January 27, 2022 by h v coll

 Q3908 Builder Plate Hypothetical Guessing on Design?  I am trying to make an educated-decision on what a BUILDERS PLATE for the Philadelphia & Erie/ PRR Renovo, PA Shops locomotive plates would have actually looked- like from the over 120 steam locomotives built there from 1860s on? My assumptions so-far are that they may have imitated the PRR Altoona builder plates on the Renovo-builts? But they may have forged their own unique builder plates also? This question leads to a lot of speculation and outright guesses, I agree, but Im hoping a history-fan of steam builders plates could add his- her knowledge and logic of what they probably looked like back then? I have tried the easy route of looking at old pictures of Renovo- built American locomotives to physically see of it was... circle...keystone...oval...??... but I cannot identify the builder plates on the grainy old photos. Thanks.  Posted Wednesday, January 26, 2022 by VT   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It was a circle builder plate. I have narrowed the answer to that level with certainty. I found a picture of an 1888 Renovo-built D8a "American type" 4-4-0 locomotive number 101 stationary with the crew standing in front of her posing. The engine number plate on smoke box was a cast circle with simply the number centered on a raised edge plate.  Posted Thursday, January 27, 2022 by vvtdeb

A. There is at least one photo I have seen that shows a round builders plate with a single bolt hole on the smoke box and you can read Renovo Shops on the plate. It is very similar to a round Altoona plate before they moved to the ovals.  Posted Thursday, January 27, 2022 by COD

A. Very good info...we got the fact that the RENOVO Shops locomotive builder plate was actually a round metal plate. Now the question becomes, WHAT WAS INFORMATION shown on these builder plates? I am assuming there was common cast of the wording of "Built at Renovo Shops" on every plate? "Date built" is probably another sure bet on information contained? Wonder if they used the "Shop Serial number" of each engine? This was literally numerical sequence of each build prefaced with "R" from 1 thru 120. Any for sight by anyone knowledgeable in small shop builder's plates is highly appreciated!  Posted Saturday, February 19, 2022 by vvtdeb